Biola University
We like to do segments that highlight people who are doing civility right, and it’s pretty special when we see Biola students who are doing it right. On today’s episode, Tim speaks with one of his students, Markus, who is also a film major at Biola. Markus wrote and directed a short film, “Halfway,” that addresses the animosity and reconciliation between two families, Israeli and Palestinian. Tim and Markus also reflect on the role of film in helping to foster perspective-taking, including Markus’s stint as an intern on the set on the wildly popular tv series, The Chosen.
Transcript
Tim Muehlhoff: Welcome to the Winsome Conviction Podcast. My name is Tim Muehlhoff, I'm a professor of communication. This is one of my favorite segments in our podcast. It's called People Doing It Right. There are people all across the country that are absolutely doing it right. It just never rises to the level of CNN or USA Today, but we have tried to draw attention to it and people are doing great things in their backyards and parks, being able to talk about a whole host of issues. So one of the cool things about being at Biola University is without a doubt we get some of the best and brightest students around. I mean, it is just a fact, and we get to rub shoulders with them. So I teach a GE class. GE stands for-
Markus: The best.
Tim Muehlhoff: ... General Education. So at a university, you probably remember this from your college days, you get to pick your major, you might have a minor, but then the university picks GE courses, history, philosophy-
Markus: English writing.
Tim Muehlhoff: English writing, yeah. So I taught a GE class in communication and had Markus in my class, and we just hit it off. He's an amazing student. So energetic, just really took to rhetoric. The class was on public persuasion, so I said, "We got to get you on the podcast." So I want to introduce everybody to Markus.
Markus: Cashua.
Tim Muehlhoff: Cashua. Doggonit, I hesitated.
Markus: Thank you. What a privilege to be here. Thank you so much. The class was only the beginning of my communication journey. Beautiful.
Tim Muehlhoff: Because tell them what your major is.
Markus: So my major is film. So I communicate in a different way creatively through film, and that's my goal. How are we communicating such strong messages through film?
Tim Muehlhoff: And tell them a little bit about our amazing department, how it's ranked, the CMA.
Markus: It's one of the top Christian film schools in the world. They're top 30 by variety. So the best of the best.
Tim Muehlhoff: That's amazing.
Markus: And they have a new building coming up soon, so it's also exciting to see what they have in store.
Tim Muehlhoff: Oh, it's amazing. There's a big crater right now, but the floor plans are absolutely-
Markus: It's a huge hole, yeah.
Tim Muehlhoff: And having Los Angeles be so close.
Markus: Very strategic.
Tim Muehlhoff: Man, it's just amazing. Yeah, I have often said, and one day when you get married, you'll know what the marriage look is, Markus. I said if I ever went back to do another Ph.D., that's where the look came in. It just came very quickly, it would be, and I kid you not, it would be in film.
Markus: Really?
Tim Muehlhoff: Yeah, it really would.
Markus: Because you have a theater background.
Tim Muehlhoff: I have a theater background. I actually had to take a directing class, theater directing, but just fell in love with it. And I say this sincerely, Markus, I think the modern profits today are really-
Markus: Creative.
Tim Muehlhoff: ... film and even YouTube Shorts, something goes viral, it has the chance to impact not just our country but the world.
Markus: It has access. And I'm from Lebanon, so being Middle Eastern, access is so valuable. And so in places where there are restrictions, media can permeate all that.
Tim Muehlhoff: Yeah, it's so cool.
Markus: Beautiful.
Tim Muehlhoff: And some regimes have even tried to shut down the internet.
Markus: Absolutely.
Tim Muehlhoff: And they can't. It's like God's common grace.
Markus: It's invasive.
Tim Muehlhoff: It's really cool. You're graduating.
Markus: This semester.
Tim Muehlhoff: This semester.
Markus: So won't be able to connect with you as much.
Tim Muehlhoff: Come on.
Markus: But excited to move on.
Tim Muehlhoff: Well, congratulations.
Markus: Thank you. Thank you.
Tim Muehlhoff: The reason Markus is on this segment, People Doing It Right,is Markus created a short film that invited me, a bunch of faculty to go to. It was absolutely amazing. We're huge fans of perspective taking here. We really feel like perspective taking is the lost skill, and yet your film was really about perspective taking. So tell us a little bit about the film, why you landed on the subject matter, and then kind of paint a picture for us and then let us know of course where they can actually go to see it.
Markus: Absolutely. So I was asked to film, write and direct a short film for Biola. So they have this contest where you get to pitch all sorts of ideas and then they kind of decide which one would be best for their program.
Tim Muehlhoff: Do they only pick one?
Markus: It's one in the spring and then two in the fall. So I had only pitched in the spring, and so it was only one.
Tim Muehlhoff: And they picked yours.
Markus: Privilege. Yeah. It was such a delight. So I got to direct and write a short film called Halfway, and it's a story of reconciliation between two cultural enemies. So you have two families, one from Israel, one from Palestine. They move to the US and they happen to be neighbors. So what does that look like and how can they have those civil conversations? And it talks about halfway, how are we meeting halfway with the cultural enemy in our own context and having all those conversations while still deepening our convictions as the Winsome Conviction talks about.
And so the process was what would it look like for us to create a film that doesn't provide a cliche? Because films on reconciliation can tend to be stereotypical. We expect the other to embrace or to completely overlook their own beliefs and concede to the beliefs of other people. But Halfway was different in a sense. It was like these two people, one from a Muslim background, one from a more Jewish background, they had really strong beliefs, really strong, robust convictions. But what would that look like for them to meet halfway and just have a conversation? And so that's what the film is about
Tim Muehlhoff: And it's how long?
Markus: It's just 10 minutes. So within the span of 10 minutes, you go from a person who is more cynical and detached and not wanting to connect with other person to, "Hey, what would it look like for us to meet halfway in the middle of the road?"
Tim Muehlhoff: Listen, you need to go see it. So where can they go see it?
Markus: On YouTube. So you can search up Halfway short film and you'll be able to find it.
Tim Muehlhoff: So well done, Markus.
Markus: Thank you.
Tim Muehlhoff: So did you do the script and the blocking? I mean everything conceptually and the script?
Markus: Yes. So I wrote the script in the fall of... So two years ago, and then I pitched it to Biola, worked on a few adjustments, a few edits, and then we produced it over the semester.
Tim Muehlhoff: And it's powerful. I mean it's got some really powerful scenes of getting you in the mindset of what these families are dealing with.
Markus: The pain, the suffering.
Tim Muehlhoff: The pain, yeah.
Markus: And I think what's beautiful too is the film doesn't only portray reconciliation, but it practices it too somehow. Because we had people from both of those backgrounds. We had a Palestinian Muslim on set, we had a Jewish Israeli on set. So what did it look like for them to be in a context where maybe they don't usually interact, but they did. So film united them to be in that atmosphere together. So it was powerful.
Tim Muehlhoff: Do you know Anna Deavere Smith? Is that name familiar?
Markus: Not really.
Tim Muehlhoff: So when there was the Crown Heights riot, the race riot between African-American population and the Jewish population, she went as a Stanford performance theorist and interviewed 300 different people from both communities. Then did a show called Fires in the Mirror, a one-person show where she did all the people that she interviewed. And then she invited though members of both communities to actually sit in the same theater as they watch it.
Markus: Wow.
Tim Muehlhoff: It is.
Markus: What was the response?
Tim Muehlhoff: Oh, amazing. Some people said, "Yeah, I felt like you kind of caricatured me a little bit. You didn't go deep enough." But everybody felt like, "I heard my words being presented and it really made it a big difference." And I kind feel like you're saying that same thing too, that not only is it a film, but it's a mechanism by which reconciliation, bridge-building can actually happen by people coming to watch the film.
Markus: Beautiful.
Tim Muehlhoff: That is so cool.
Markus: Yeah.
Tim Muehlhoff: Hey, you have such a unique background. Your dad's pretty amazing.
Markus: He is.
Tim Muehlhoff: I didn't know anything about your dad until I met you.
Markus: Look up to him so much.
Tim Muehlhoff: And then you told me about your dad and I was like, "You got to be kidding me."
Markus: He's amazing.
Tim Muehlhoff: Can you bring us up to speed just a little bit on your dad and his ministry?
Markus: Yes. So my dad, he's a scholar at night, but he's a pastor by day. So he has a Ph.D. in textual criticism, so there are all sorts of science to that. But he pastors a church in Beirut, Lebanon called Resurrection Church. And we had an interesting time in history. Historically, Lebanon has always been through crisis. And so how are we pastoring a church during difficult times? And that's something to learn I guess here in the west. So in 1975 to 1990, there was a civil war. And the civil war really brought so much damage to the infrastructure of the country. My grandpa died as a result of the war. There was a lot of difficulty.
And one of the reasons was the Syrian influence on our country, on our politics, on our government. And that also caused a lot of harm. They were in authority and they really abused the Lebanese people. So imagine what kind of hostility the Lebanese have towards the Syrian people. And so they flee. But when they come back in 2011, this time they come back not as people of authority, but refugees, weak, vulnerable refugees. And so Lebanese people unfortunately take advantage of that. They abuse the vulnerable, the weak, and they rebuild that cycle of violence over and over again. The cultural enmity that had been is now again. And so it was only people like my dad and churches that instead of closing the doors, decided to open their doors to the Syrian refugees who had once caused so much harm in the past.
Tim Muehlhoff: Isn't that amazing?
Markus: And so one vivid example I have is there was a Syrian leader who had major influence during the civil war from 1975 to 1990, when my dad was in his youth, and he came to church. And so my dad, out of an act, a radical act of reconciliation, said, what would it look like to invite him on stage and wash his feet?
Tim Muehlhoff: That's how I first learned of your dad. Remember when the assignments was bring an image?
Markus: There you go. Yeah. That was him.
Tim Muehlhoff: And you brought the image?
Markus: Yeah, that was my artifact.
Tim Muehlhoff: Oh my goodness.
Markus: And so as an act of reconciliation and bringing people together in the audience, you have Lebanese and Syrian crying. And my dad talks about how when he knelt down to wash the feet of the enemy as if God knelt down to wash his past and his hurt and his pain.
Tim Muehlhoff: Oh my goodness.
Markus: And so what a story to remind us of when... And that's not even meeting halfway, right? That's going all the way to, that's washing his feet. And that's completely radical but beautiful to see how much redemption that can bring.
Tim Muehlhoff: Were there any critics? Was there anyone who said, that's going too far? How dare you condone or welcome a person who had done that kind of stuff?
Markus: Absolutely. I'm sure there was resistance. I mean, you hear still today about people, "Okay, why are there Syrians hanging out with my Lebanese kids? Or why are we even sharing the same bathroom?" You can hear that all around Lebanon. But in that time, I think it was eye-opening to us as a church to be like, this is what God has called us to do, to wash the feet of the cultural enemy. Because they really were the enemy in that context.
Tim Muehlhoff: So go to the foot washing.
Markus: Yes.
Tim Muehlhoff: How long in the past was it when the Syrian atrocities were happening?
Markus: So the atrocities were happening between 1975 and 1990, and then in 2011 there was a huge influx of Syrian refugees into the country. So 20 years later, the hostility was still evident. And so those same people who had caused so much harm were now in need of us, were in need of the church, were in need of relief. And so how do you react to that?
Tim Muehlhoff: My goodness, that's Paul.
Markus: There you go.
Tim Muehlhoff: Without a doubt that's Paul saying, "When your enemy is hungry, feed him. Give him something to drink." Right?
Markus: The least of these, right. Who amongst us is the least? And I think those people were vulnerable and weak and they were in need of our embrace.
Tim Muehlhoff: All right, we're about to geek out just a little bit because I know we are both super fans of The Chosen.
Markus: Yes. Tell me about it.
Tim Muehlhoff: So tell us just a little bit before we geek out, because what you just said absolutely made me think of the beautiful and powerful portrayal The Chosen does of Peter and Matthew who have this cultural difference that Peter's not ready to forgive anything. And yet there's a powerful moment. But tell us about the, you did an internship with The Chosen?
Markus: Correct. So I was there two summers ago. I got to intern for The Chosen. Huge experience just to be on set and see all the characters. Huge dream of mine. And I think what's powerful tying into reconciliation or communication is how Dallas Jenkins, the director, is able to unite people of all walks of life on the story of Christ. People who do not necessarily believe in Christianity or in Jesus, but they are putting so much effort into sharing the message of the gospel. So that's I think beautiful that I saw on set.
Tim Muehlhoff: And what was your job? What was your internship?
Markus: So it was a camera production assistant. So mainly observing the production, helping out with some archiving, taking notes of the lighting setups. I was on set, which was cool because not everyone got to experience the on set. So I was there with the crew watching every scene, every shot, and taking note of that.
Tim Muehlhoff: Now we actually had coffee and talked about this a while ago. So who was it? Tom Hanks who said, "Never meet your heroes because they often disappoint. So I think I said to you during this lunch, don't tell me if Jesus is a jerk. What's the actor's name?
Markus: Jonathan Roumie. He's the sweetest.
Tim Muehlhoff: And you said he's awesome.
Markus: Oh, he's the sweetest. He portrays Jesus not only on screen but off screen. Out of his way, he wanted to make sure he knew everyone's names. And I'm telling you, there's 70 people on the set and he'd offer us, he had a coffee booth at the end of the set to help wrap us up. He was like, love Jonathan Roumie. So he's sweet, he's great.
Tim Muehlhoff: That is really cool. But I love that The Chosen doesn't shy away from asking really hard questions. I think the problem of evil is pervasive throughout The Chosen in poor Thomas's life, the way they construct what's happened to him.
Markus: Spoiler alert.
Tim Muehlhoff: Spoiler alert. I honestly think the raising of Lazarus was one of the most powerful scenes, but in conjunction with Thomas, and again, I don't want to spoil too much, but the conversation Jesus has with Thomas is one of the best, most raw defenses of God's goodness in the presence of evil.
Markus: Beautiful.
Tim Muehlhoff: It was just so well done. But I love the fact that you had a tax collector and everybody's like, "What are you doing with this tax collector? No way is this person part of the group."
Markus: And he is.
Tim Muehlhoff: And he is, and Peter really struggled with that. He did not think this was a good idea and yet had a decision to make, what should we do? And I love that about your dad and the congregation. What are we going to do? Now what are we going to do with people who now need our help, who were the oppressors but now they need our help? Man, that is radical.
Markus: It is so counter-cultural.
Tim Muehlhoff: It is so counter-cultural.
Markus: In today's world where we are screaming for opposite ends, places in the Middle East where we're washing each other's feet. That's radical.
Tim Muehlhoff: It's radical. Okay, let me shift topics real quick. So you and I had lunch before the election.
Markus: Right?
Tim Muehlhoff: And I remember you saying to me, I obviously have to set this one out, so I'm just kind of watching. All right sir. Give me your take on American politics, not necessarily the issues, but as you watch how Americans talk about politics, how we treat each other. What's been your general observations about us as we work out this democratic process?
Markus: What a great complex question. No, I agree. I mean it was interesting. It was my first elections being here in the US and seeing it live. And so for me, I felt like there's two different extremes that people take. Either you're shouting from opposite ends and you're not willing to have a face-to-face conversation or you're just quiet about it-
Tim Muehlhoff: You're just shutting it down.
Markus: You just shut up. You don't say anything. And in fear that you will offend someone, but also out of pride because you don't want to reveal your political stance. And so those are two different things that I saw. I think it's beautiful about the Christian community to see how we can unite amidst our differences, our political differences. Here, Biola, the church we go to. It's beautiful to see how can we be... first of all, where is our citizenship? We talk about citizenship in heaven primarily. And then how can we still commune in the body of Christ even though we think so differently together? So I think that's a different, you like to say communication climate, that we're in at Biola at the church. But in the US, I mean you talk about how incivility is a problem in our world today and amidst the elections. It's just crazy. It's crazy to see how we talk to each other online, in person. And it's unfortunate as well. So that's my take.
Tim Muehlhoff: We got a chance to interview Andrew Sullivan. He was doing a big event here in Southern California and we had some connections to him. He's British and we had him on, we went to him, did like a one-hour, you can check it out on our archives, just Andrew Sullivan. But he said this at the very end, and I've thought about this so many times as we headed into the election, now we're post-election. He said, "Listen, let me just comment as a Brit, the American experiment is unparalleled. It is beautiful to watch. Don't ever take it for granted, even with all the crazy problems. Don't ever take for granted what you have." And I've never forgotten that.
Markus: Never heard that before.
Tim Muehlhoff: Yeah, I love it. We take it for granted so much. We lived in the former Soviet Union for a year with Campus Crusade for Christ.
Markus: Lithuania.
Tim Muehlhoff: Lithuania. Boy, they would take our mess any day of the week.
Markus: In a heartbeat.
Tim Muehlhoff: In a heartbeat. And it's good to step back every once in a while and just appreciate.
Markus: The opportunity to even communicate. I mean, you have the space to be able to have those spaces. So how are we leveraging those, right, for the word of God.
Tim Muehlhoff: And even the freedom of press. We can complain about my side bias and all that kind of stuff, but at the end of the day, yeah, I mean the students in Lithuania, it was interesting when you were saying talking too much or not talking, they still don't talk because they grew up in a very authoritative-
Markus: Communist.
Tim Muehlhoff: I mean you got hit hard if you shared your opinion.
Markus: Tell me about it. My mom is actually Latvian. So I'm half. I'm half Latvian. Yeah, so maybe I shared that. So she also comes from a very Soviet Union influenced background. They would never open up about their personal convictions in fear of what the other would say. And so really what a privilege there is, the freedom of speech that's present here. I just hope we use that in the best way possible.
Tim Muehlhoff: I agree. When we first got to Lithuania, Markus, we were leading everybody to Christ. Everybody we shared with prayed to receive Christ.
Markus: Wow.
Tim Muehlhoff: Okay. So after a while you're like, "Okay, we're not that good. Okay, what is going on?" So we finally grabbed a guy named Kastas and we sat him down and we said, "Kastas, what's going on?" And he goes, "Look, we would never disagree because one, it's rude. Two, we'd get in trouble. So everybody's agreeing with you, they will not disagree." And we thought, "Okay, we're going to have to work on that communication climate kind of thing." All right, let me close with this. As a young budding filmmaker, who has been your influences? Who's on your Mount Rushmore of favorite movies or favorite directors that just stand out to you that has really shaped your thinking?
Markus: Great question. I would definitely, first of all, say The Chosen. That's my number one. I loved the show.
Tim Muehlhoff: One of the best things I've ever seen.
Markus: Best things really to see how creatively you can communicate gospel message. I also love shows that portray, I mean culture appropriately as well. I think it's beautiful. I think there's a film less about the cultural aspect, but also reconciliation, it's called The Hundred-Foot Journey. I don't know if you've heard of it. I love it because it's two different cultures and it's like how are we making that journey to go to each other's doorstep and having those conversations and building reconciliation. So that's one movie that comes to mind that I think you'd love to see in light of communication reconciliation.
Tim Muehlhoff: But I really would. Oh, that's great. Okay. Thank you so much for joining.
Markus: Thank you. What a pleasure. I don't have an ice vanilla latte here because I know you like those, but it was a delight.
Tim Muehlhoff: This is why we do what we do, man. Sincerely, Markus, you are the legacy of Biola. This is why we exist, to create men and women in mind and character who engage culture.
Markus: Amen.
Tim Muehlhoff: Hey, that's a great platitude.
Markus: Yes.
Tim Muehlhoff: But when you see people doing it like you.
Markus: It's powerful.
Tim Muehlhoff: And here's what I love. You were doing it while you were here. Sometimes people say, "When I graduate I'm going to impact." But man, what you actually do, I just think that is so powerful. So thank you so much.
Markus: Thank you.
Tim Muehlhoff: And again, Halfway, just go ahead and do a quick Google search and take 10 minutes to watch a really powerful-
Markus: That'd be great.
Tim Muehlhoff: It'd be great.
Markus: Thank you.
Tim Muehlhoff: Oh, you bet. Thank you for listening to the Winsome Conviction Podcast. If you want to go one-stop shopping, just go to winsomeconviction.com. You can listen to all of our past podcasts, including the ones we did with Andrew Sullivan. We've got articles, we were just featured in Christianity Today, me and Rick, about how do churches prepare to talk about the election, both post and-
Markus: Beautiful.
Tim Muehlhoff: ... during. And then let me just recommend one thing. Boy, you'd be so curious to look at this, Markus, is we created a website to come with... My latest book is with Sean McDowell, End the Stalemate. We created a website with a web designer called endthestalemate.com. It's an interactive website, don't need to have read the book, but my goodness, buy the book.
Markus: Check out the book.
Tim Muehlhoff: Check out the book, Halfway can wait. Buy the book now.
Markus: I agree.
Tim Muehlhoff: Amazon Prime two days. But it teaches you to do perspective taking. And if you're still wondering, you're obviously listening to this post-election, how in the world could a person vote for that person? How could a Christian do that?
Markus: Tell me about it.
Tim Muehlhoff: You're going to listen to two really articulate Christians that really voted differently.
Markus: I bet.
Tim Muehlhoff: And I think still post-election I think it's good to go and just listen and hear why there were articulate reasons to go both ways. Markus, thank you.
Markus: Thank you for the space to share all this.
Tim Muehlhoff: Absolutely. All right, you all. Thank you so much. Check us out wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Give us a like.
